I listened to my grandfather talk to a serial killer. I'll never see grief the same way

1 month_ago 21

Canada·First Person

Nathaniel Frum was a struggling screenwriter hoping to prime up a communicative his gramps had started moving connected astir a serial killer. But erstwhile faced with a idiosyncratic loss, it shifted Frum’s attack arsenic a storyteller and became a acquisition successful household legacy.

What started arsenic a existent transgression podcast became a acquisition successful nonaccomplishment and household legacy

Nathaniel Frum · for CBC First Person

· Posted: May 20, 2025 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 8 hours ago

A antheral   and pistillate   with grey hairsbreadth  basal   successful  a angiosperm  field. They’re surrounded by 3  children.

Journalist Peter Worthington, left, with his woman Yvonne and their grandchildren Nathaniel, Beatrice and Miranda. (Submitted by Nathaniel Frum)

This First Person file is the acquisition of Nathaniel Frum, co-host of CBC Podcasts' Uncover: Calls From a Killer. For much accusation astir CBC's First Person stories, delight see the FAQ

For the past six years, I've been moving connected a story. 

It began successful 2019 erstwhile I requested and received dusty boxes from Canada's nationalist archives. Inside were paper clippings, constabulary files, ineligible documents, photographs and dozens of cassette tapes.  

At the time, I was a struggling screenwriter hoping to prime up a communicative my gramps had worked connected but ne'er finished. What I didn't cognize was that unsealing these boxes would alteration my life. It would reconnect maine to my precocious grandfather, bring maine a heavy and unexpected friendship, and unit maine to face the raw, devastating value of nonaccomplishment — some my ain and that of others.

I picked the dustiest portion from the bottommost of 1 of the boxes and loaded it into an past player.

As soon arsenic it played, I recognized the dependable of my maternal gramps Peter Worthington. He was the founding exertion of the Toronto Sun, a warfare analogous and a legendary Canadian journalist. It was the archetypal clip I had heard his dependable since helium died successful 2013.

A collage of 2  images. On the left, a achromatic  and achromatic  representation  of a antheral   successful  a suit. On the right, a cardboard container  filled with 3  rows of cassettes.

Peter Worthington, left, was the founding exertion of the Toronto Sun and spoke with serial slayer Clifford Olson for implicit 20 years. On the right, the container of cassettes that Frum received from Library and Archives Canada. (Submitted by Nathaniel Frum, Canadian Press)

To his grandchildren, Peter Worthington was conscionable Pete — the antheral who taught america magic tricks, however to sprout a BB gun, however to propulsion a shot and however we could prevention 2 dollars by buying  three-day-old cakes astatine the market store. Sometimes, helium would speech astir the clip helium was astir killed successful Algeria oregon the clip the Pierre Trudeau authorities charged him nether the Official Secrets Act — but frankly, we were much funny successful his unthinkable content that the basal brew jelly legume was superior to immoderate other. 

Pete's dependable connected the portion was soon joined by another. This was the 1 I had acceptable retired to perceive to successful the archetypal place: the dependable of the serial killer, Clifford Olson.

Calls from a killer

In the aboriginal 1980s, Olson abducted, raped and murdered astatine slightest 11 children successful British Columbia's Lower Mainland. Considered 1 of Canada's archetypal serial killers, helium was convicted and sentenced to 11 concurrent beingness sentences. It was from situation that Olson started calling my gramps connected the phone. He had archetypal started by calling Arlene Bynon, a writer who had conscionable done a vigor bid connected the American serial slayer Ted Bundy. Soon, Arlene was conducting telephone interviews with Olson successful secret. After respective weeks, Arlene enlisted my grandfather, her mentor, to assistance behaviour those interviews.

Listening to these recorded calls, it was the archetypal clip I'd ever heard Pete work. He was measured, incisive and disarming. A talented journalist, Pete coaxed Olson into revealing much than helium ever intended. I began to recognize the skill, the patience and the motivation complexity of what helium did. I felt adjacent to him successful a caller way. 

Two men sitting astatine  a table. One of them is looking consecutive  astatine  the camera portion    the different   looks astatine  the table.

Worthington, left, sits with convicted serial slayer Clifford Olson successful the 1990s. (Submitted by Nathaniel Frum)

A caller task took signifier successful my mind, 1 that would yet go the caller CBC podcast Calls From a Killer. But I soon realized that I couldn't undertake this alone. 

So I turned to different dependable I heard connected the tapes: Arlene Bynon. She, too, received calls from Olson and was Pete's reporting spouse connected a never-completed probe into Olson. We joined forces — 2 radical from antithetic generations, agreed by curiosity, a shared consciousness of work to Olson's victims and brought unneurotic by Pete. 

A earthy knowing of loss

For 5 years, Arlene and I worked unneurotic connected this communicative and yet partnered with the CBC — a broadcaster that meant truthful overmuch to different of my grandparents: Barbara Frum. It was similar walking successful the footsteps of giants. No pressure.

But a period into our concern with the CBC, my ain beingness shattered. In February 2024, my sister Miranda died from complications related to a encephalon tumour surgically removed years earlier. 

I felt similar my satellite was destroyed. My family, successful an instant, devastated. I stopped moving connected the podcast. I couldn't carnivore the thought of calling radical who'd mislaid their ain loved ones, and asking them to talk astir the worst days, weeks, oregon years of their lives. 

Any region I had from the communicative evaporated. 

WATCH | What does a newsman bash erstwhile they person a acold telephone from 1 of the astir horrific serial killers successful Canadian history? 

Would you instrumentality a telephone from a serial killer?

Arlene Bynon hosts the latest play of the CBC existent transgression podcast Uncover with "Calls from a Killer" her relationship of the years she spent interviewing convicted serial slayer Clifford Olson. Calls from a Killer is disposable to perceive to present wherever you get your podcasts.

After respective weeks, I thought getting backmost to enactment would bash maine immoderate good. When I yet returned to the project, I genuinely understood what it meant to abruptly suffer a loved one. I could talk present to the victims' families with the compassion and knowing of shared, abrupt loss.

A achromatic  and achromatic  collage of respective  radical   successful  1980s fashion.

Olson’s victims ranged successful property from 9 to 18. A fig of friends and household members are interviewed successful the CBC podcast Calls From a Killer. (BC RCMP record photo)

Over time, I came to spot that these families weren't speaking to america to archer Olson's story; they were speaking with america to reclaim their loved ones' legacies. To close the record. To asseverate that their children were not footnotes successful immoderate monster's biography. They were kids. Siblings. Daughters. Sons. 

And I was being asked to assistance archer their story. I anticipation we person done them justice.

'Making consciousness of thing senseless'

My beingness is precise antithetic from erstwhile I archetypal opened those boxes. I've mislaid my sister. I joined my wife, Isabel. We are expecting our archetypal child, a daughter.

Arlene and I often inquire each different what we anticipation listeners volition instrumentality distant from the podcast. For me, the reply is simple: I anticipation it brings immoderate measurement of closure, not conscionable to the families of Olson's victims, but to anyone who has ever tried to marque consciousness of thing senseless.

I deliberation backmost to that archetypal dusty cassette, the infinitesimal I pressed play and heard my grandfather's dependable aft truthful galore years. I thought I was chasing a story. But what I recovered was thing acold much personal: a transportation to my past, a reminder of what's been mislaid and a work to transportation guardant these names and memories. 


Do you person a compelling idiosyncratic communicative that tin bring knowing oregon assistance others? We privation to perceive from you. Here's more info connected however to transportation to us.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Nathaniel Frum is simply a Canadian-American journalist, writer and documentary filmmaker based successful New York. He’s the co-host of Uncover: Calls From a Killer from CBC Podcasts.

    read-entire-article